Bulova 1964 -Non-Conforming

Submitted by JimDon5822 on June 5, 2023 - 11:52pm
Manufacture Year
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Movement Jewels
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Watch Description

Here is a flea market find from this weekend that has me stumped.  Probably a Beau Brummell but I cannot find a variant.   This is a big thick watch case that rounds over like a big donut.   The case is yellow gold with a stainless back showing an M4 date code.   The movement is a 10BPAC and  23J. The dial has round diamonds set in "flower" settings at 3,6,9,12 and is two tone with a darker center.  It came without a stem or crown.   I found a stem but still looking for a crown that fits. 

64 Beau Brummell
64 Beau Brummell 2
64 Beau Brummell 3
Posted June 6, 2023 - 7:12pm

This is a tough one. I wonder if the dial has been cleaned, since the "23 Jewels" and "Selfwinding" print is missing.

Geoff Baker
Posted June 7, 2023 - 9:37pm

I think you're right Ken, the dial doesn't look 'original' does it?

Posted June 8, 2023 - 8:04am

Potentially from the Beau Brummell range. I'd also agree that the dial has been overcleaned causing all black print to be removed.

I feel the dial is origianal just missing the detail print.

Here is a close eample of the Beau Brummell "QQ" showing a similar dial design. Center sweep hand vs sub second hand and traingle diamond mounts vs round mounts. Both were used and are correct..

1964 Bulova Beau Brummell "QQ"

I'd ID as a generic Beau Brummell.

Posted June 8, 2023 - 9:42am

I believe you all are correct on the dial.  I took a close look with a magnifying glass and can see a halo around Bulova that appears to show the original finish that remains.    Otherwise I am certain this is all factory made and generic Beau Brummell seems likely.  

Geoff Baker
Posted June 8, 2023 - 8:25pm

I'm not sure I'd tag this one as a Beau Brummell. I trust that it's all original but the dial seems to be stepped down in the middle. I'm leaning to Unknown.

Posted June 10, 2023 - 4:31pm

Well. I've been back to this one several times over several days and searched by date, case, dial and movement.  Looked at shape, lugs and for recessed crown. I find what appears to be this dial (stepped center circle w/ dots & 4 diamonds) on a 1959 BB "EE" and companion "FF" in yellow. Lugs are different and case back / profiles are different. No illustrated examples that I can find from 1958 to 1965.

Here are my thoughts on possibilities, noting stripped dial:  It's an unknown BB model dated 1964  It's a non-date verified earlier unknown BB with a replaced back that is dated 1964 It's a marriage of convenience of the dial and movement from a late 50's BB "FF" or "EE" in an unidentified Bulova donor case.

I don't recognize the case at all; Yellow Beau's in this time frame generally had bubble backs or slightly domed plated case backs with ring. Does that mean anything? I don't know. Dial is obviously a factory assembled diamond dial that appears to only be seen per ads in 1959.

My gut feeling is a combination of all bulova parts, but there is no proof it is or isn't. I suggest that for the time being; either call it a Generic 1964 Beau or unknown. I would hate to call it potential non-conforming without proof.


Posted June 12, 2023 - 3:43am

In reply to by neetstuf-4-u

Bob, that's a great refernec find. You can clearly see the inner dial step. I agree, that is most likely what the dial looked like originally.

Posted June 12, 2023 - 1:18am

The guy I bought it from says this was from a watch makers estate.  Could be a marriage of parts but leaning towards unknown just in case it shows up somewhere.  

Posted June 12, 2023 - 3:41am

I think that it's either a generic BB for now or Non-conforming. I doubt it would be anything else other than a BB if it were all correct.

Geoff Baker
Posted June 12, 2023 - 9:16pm

I cannot support a Beau Brummell ID - Non-Conforming for me.