Well boys... I snagged this fantastic men's Bulova Pocket watch for $31 dollars the other day. It's unbelieveable how great this things look at 94 years old probably.
The movement is double stamped "triangle' and "circle". So.. I believe the case is probably from 1924, and the movement was from 1925, but sold in 1926. Not uncommon for this early of Bulova.
The case is marked:
The really cool thing is the case serial is 223008, and if you look at the rim of the case the movement is in, you'll see stamped 23008. I haven't noticed that before.
But the conundrum is these aren't marked as far as gold content.
So... if we don't know the gold content, it's going to be hard to determine the model number. We have two watch advertisements from 1924 that match this watch.
This watch in 14k white gold is Model "472".
This watch in gold filled white is Model "470".
Also... there are stamps all over this thing, one of them is this near the date stamps:
Hrmmm... info stolen from another forum, shows this is more than likely the 14k gold filled version which would make it Model "470"?:
The majority of "Brooklyn Watch Case Company" cases are solid-gold, but the "dog-bone" trade-mark should be accompanied by a form of "14-K" or better yet the "Warranted to U.S. Assay" marking to be definitive.
When you see "Monarch" then it is ALWAYS a Gold-Filled case, there is no if, no but, no maybe, period.
Case companies were absorbed, one into another, the "Monarch" trade marked name originated with Fahys as a Gold-Filled Case and that continued over the years through a succession of owners. The name "Monarch" was a well-known trade mark and it was used only on Gold-Filled cases. In the jewelry trade all the various model names were well known, nobody was fooled there, but among the public it was and is even today a whole different story. The problems were so great that by the early 1920s the government stepped in and did away with all the time-statements, requiring gold content to be specifically stated on all jewelry items which of course included watch cases. They could keep their names but content had to be clearly stated. Steve's case would have been made before the stated content law took effect.
Questions about "Monarch" and other names have been raised in our forums numerous times over the years. If you do an IHC185 Find-Or-Search for "Monarch Case" the information found there may help in this discussion. It is important to remember that if you find "Monarch" along "14K" it means "14K Gold Filled" and if you see "Monarch" or practically any other name from a very long list of "Gold-Filled" model names alone with the manufacturers name it will almost invariably turn out to be a Gold-Filled case. The only exception I can think of is "Brooklyn Eagle" which is an 8K Solid-Gold case.
Most of the "tests" for gold are not at all foolproof, almost invariably those "tests" are intrusive, the acid remains and burns the case often permanently damaging the movement.
Checking page 59 of the Ehrhardt Trade Mark Book reveals a direct reference to "Monarch" and a number of other "Gold-Filled" model names, one must also consider the advertisement below this posting.
I have no info on this movt, it's old, that's for sure. Might be one of the Bulova 'in house' ones from their factory in Switzerland, not based on an ebauche, like the 17R or 17A.
I'd say best guess is that this is probably the model 470, based on the likelihood that the case is Gold Filled.
The only way to ID the movt is by removing the hands and dial and looking at the keyless works 'Fingerprint'.
The stamp near the date stamp says TWO 2 ADJ.
With the movement being 1925/26 it is hard to say for sure that the watch is original and that the case isn't a later re-marriage. A lot of people think that BWC stands for 'Bulova Watch Company' and think Bulova manufactured them.
As you state above Plains BWC is very much a differnet company. BUT that in itself does not mean it's not original.
I'm inclined to be tentative on the Bulova 470, giving the case the benefit of the doubt.
Either way, at $31 it was a great buy.
Yeah Steve, I believe B.W.C. CO. Cases were used for these early pocket watches. Just my limited research for these early/mid 20's models is showing several of this model and plainer dialed one for sure used the B.W.C. CO. Monarch cases.
If we can readily see example after example, it could warrant a Monarch drop down in the cases template.
Ok... in researching about 15 of these watches off the current or sold listings on the bay, of I believe this model or the plain dialed one, it looks like almost an even split somewhere around 4-5 of each case marked the following:
Bulova Quality Filled (with obvious machined circles over the whole inside)
B.W.C. CO. (Brooklyn Watch Company and "dog bone" symbol)
Cashier, 14K Gold Filled, Case Made in Canada (with what looks to be a winged wheel symbol)
All three of these cases seem to be utilized in the debute 1924 models 470. Pretty cool....
In reply to Jerin, is the watch yellow or by mybulova_admin
This case is in white gold. Just got another in the mail yesterday, that's yellow gold, and the case is the last one... the "Flying Wheel" Cashier case. I think Bulova used these 3 Steve.. just because there seem to be so many housed in them.
Oh the 1924 was just the model feom me as its the only year we have an ad for it.