Hi all,
I recently won this Lone Eagle on eBay. After I received it I exchanged emails with Stephen about whether it’s one of the 5000 based on the case number (6637743), and the movement, which is a 10AN and has a serial number of 227325. Oddly, I can't find a date code on the movement, other than an arrow. I'm aware of the arrow that is sometimes on 1926 movements. I had commented on it recently on the 1928 President I had posted that has a 1926 9A movement with a triangle and an arrow.
http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1928-president-7639
So, perhaps this is another Bulova anomaly; a 1926 movement with only an arrow and no other date code?
Anyway, I just got the watch back from my watch guy. It needed a new mainspring and it’s now up and running (and on my wrist as I post this…). Stephen had asked me to look again to see if there was a triangle date code, and I’ve looked and looked, but all I see is the arrow. In fact, when I took it to my watch guy, he also tried to find a date code. He was also puzzled by the arrow, pulling out his chart with the Bulova date codes and pointing to 1937!!. At that time we both looked and couldn't see one other than the arrow.
I’m anxious to hear what the panel thinks. Hope it’s a 5000 LE…
David
With respect to the arrow, I can tell you I have two ladies models from 1926 that have that. One Baroness with a 6AP movement that carries both a triangle and this arrow, a an unknown sports model with a rare 6AT movement that carries both triangle and arrow as well. Cases are 1926 as well. The arrow is slightly different as from the 1937 arrow in the table. That arrow has a "curved" arrow head, while the lines on my arrow heads are perfectly straight. I hope one day we will find out what this arrow means. Maybe Bulova started off with the arrow as the official symbol for 1926?? But then changed their mind and put the vertical arrow stick in a horizontal position thus creating an equilateral triangle, stock was restamped (hence we find both triangle and arrow), but some had been distributed already (hence we find movements with only an arrow). Who knows?!??
The below post by Admin is over three years old, so there's new info.
Stephen lists the following excerpt below at: http://www.mybulova.com/node/1129
The Original 5000 Lone Eagles that I have come across in the last 5 years have these serial numbers
Record #, Date stamp, movement model, movement serial, case serial and jewel count
1. 26 10AN 225751 XXXXXX 17
2. 26 10AN 226044 6636667 17
3. 26 10AN 226840 6634587 17
4. 26 10AN 226934 6635298 17
5. 26 10AN 226975 6636219 17
6. 26 10AN 227205 XXXXXX 17
7. 26 10AN 227326 6637786 17
8. 26 10AN 227399 6560017 17
9. 26 10AN 227730 6637411 17
10. 26 10AN 228227 6636409 17
Does your "arrow" look more like this one below? This is movement shot of my Conqueror/Lone Eagle. I'll take this watch back out of storage and double check for a Triangle date stamp, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have a triangle that I could see.
The particulars on my case/mvnt are below:
10AN
17
226840
6634587
Also check out the 10AN in this record. Movement SN 227404
Owner reports a Triangle date code, but no "arrow". Mvnt SN falls w/i admins post from three years ago for LE SN's
Nobody "seen the wood for the trees"?
This is a franken, the movement is a 1937 dated 10AN put in a 1926 Conqueror case. The 10AN was produced between 1925 and 1937, we know this as fact.
Will, the watch you linked to has a triangle date code as you say, but I believe the "arrow" marked next to it has been added later in an attempt to deceive.
Possibly the example here is another "moody" one.
Non-conforming.
In reply to Nobody "seen the wood for the by bobbee
Bobbe, you are incorrect. This is not a 1937 movement, they have different markings that identify them as such. The markings on this movement are 100% that of a 1925/26/27 era watch. There are distincted differences and am very surprised you do not know how to tell a 1926 movement from a 1937 one.
In reply to Bobbe, you are incorrect. by mybulova_admin
[quote=mybulova_admin]
Bobbe, you are incorrect. This is not a 1937 movement, they have different markings that identify them as such. The markings on this movement are 100% that of a 1925/26/27 era watch. There are distincted differences and am very surprised you do not know how to tell a 1926 movement from a 1937 one.
[/quote]
Hmm, I'm surprised you're still trying to push this "first 5,000" after all the genuine evidence to the contrary, admin.
Okay, let's say it's a 1925/26/27 10AN movement.
If it's supposed to be from one of these supposed "first 5,000", then according to your own belief it should have both the triangle and the arrow marks. This is something core to your own criteria for such a watch to qualify.
This is according to your own criteria, and any disparity from any of those criteria means that any candidate for identification as such is a fail.
Any failure to stick to your own rigorous rules for inclusion reduces credibility of an already very shaky "theory".
EDIT: Here are your own professed criteria for classification as a "first 5,000" LE, as posted here:-
http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1927-lone-eagle-7096?page=3
To summerise what I classify as an true original 1927 5000 Bulova Lone Eagle, a watch MUST have the following 10 points:
- 1926 (triangle) movement
- 17 jewel 10AN movement with smaller font
- Arrow -> symbol on movement
- Movement serial number starting with 22
- Case serial number starting with 65 or 66
- 14K Gold Filled Case
- Jun.10.1924 patent date
- Open 9 on dial
- Spade style hour and minute hands
- Conqueror/Lone Eagle case
The posted example does not qualify under point 1, so cannot be what you obviously think it is.
Several other of those in the "first 5,000" "club" don't qualify because they don't fit other points in your criteria, but who cares anyway?
In reply to mybulova_admin wrote: Bobbe, by bobbee
I would think the serial number on the watch and movement would be more significant than the fact that they missed stamping a triangle date code. I'm struck by the fact that my LE has a movement serial number, 227325, that is only one digit off of the serial number for number 7 on the list of 5000 LEs that Will posted above, and the serial number of the case, 6637743, is extremely close to the serial number of that same watch (6637786). Moreover, Bulova is full of anomolies. For example, my other LE has both 1928 and 1929 date codes, which apparantly was something that hadn't been seen before (Shawn Bourget posted it for the database shortly after I bought it from him...)
http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1928-lone-eagle-5858
David
In reply to mybulova_admin wrote: Bobbe, by bobbee
We have yet to determine if the movement in question does or does not have a triangle date code. Just because David is unable to find one does not mean it doesn't have one and it certainly doesn't mean it cannot be a 5000 LE (IMO). It simply means he is unable to find the date code, which as well all know it should have.
Viewing the high res photo should help us determine what date code it has.
My money is on a triangle.
Bob it's good to see you acknowlege that the watch could be from 1926/27/28. You seemed 100% sure before it was from 1937.
