Hi All
Just a quick question, would you consider a Bulova 23j 1958 watch that is running just 20 seconds fast in 24hrs to be keeping good time? Am I alone in thinking this is good time keeping for a piece of this age?
Oh And Merry Christmas all you "Bulovaites"
Cheers
There would be some who would disagree, but I don't think that's bad. Is that on the wrist, in actual use? It also depends on when the watch was last serviced, and regulated. When I worked at Breitling, we did not regulate the watches to COSC spec, despite them being chronometers. Under a ten second delta was considered good to go, with a gaining rate of 5-8 seconds per day. These were newer watches, and for comparison, at Omega, our spec sheet allowed for up to 58 seconds for certain vintage Omegas. Of course, we were able to get them much better than that. That's proprietary information, and you didn't hear it from me. This post will self destruct.
Give me a 23J 1958 BULOVA that was Bought new, Serviced on a regular basis by a Qualified Watchmaker, kept away from harsh conditions and abuse over the last fifty odd years, and you should bve able to get a pretty good rate. But, even under these conditions, parts will have worn from use, if ever so slightly. On the other end of the spectrum... give me a 23J 1958 BULOVA that has been subject to shock (broken staff), moisture infiltration, occasional "servicing" by less than qualified persons, poor hairspring manipulation, improper lubrication, etc, etc.... and you have your work cut out for you. And again... we find everything else in between these two extremes (I personally see much more of the latter). With some 53 year old watches, the only way to get a factory specified rate is to start replacing barrel, train wheels, balance, etc with NOS parts.
Does your '65 Mustand Convertible run like the day it came off the showroom floor??
Bulovian.
I'd like to think My '84 GT vert ran better considering the work put in.
: )
This sounds like a Buyer with Buyer remorse looking for an excuse. Had the same thing happen recently, Buyer didn't like the size of the Watch although the dimensions were clearly listed.
Click refund is all You can do and move on.
BUYER'S REMORSE... case in point.
The buyer started by stating that the watch hurt his wrist when wearing it because the case edges were too sharp. He then stated that there was "no way" this could be the original case because it was in such good condition. Then he filed an "item not received" through ebay. which was immediately dismissed because there was a tracking number in file proving delivery. After that, he opened a paypal "item not as described" case claiming "different design or pattern" and "copy of original".
Paypal immediately deducted the payment amount from my account, ruled in the buyer's favor several days later, and then refunded the full amount. There has been recent talk about ebay being biased toward sellers... I have NEVER won a case filed by a buyer
By the way Fifth, I also CLEARLY state case size in my description as well as a disclaimer about Vintage Watch Sizes. I have found discalimers and refund policies to be worthless when dealing with buyer's remorse.
You know it really SUCKS when dealing with MORONS like the one you just dealt with!!! I've heard the same or similar stories from other sellers on the Bay which is why I don't sell on EBay.......
Besides, I don't think I could part with any of watches.....
"my precious" (line from "Lord of the Rings") just so I don't get in any copywrite trouble ;-)
Since I never wear the same watch two days running, I consider +/- 2' to be acceptable, so +/-20" is excellent. Back when I used to collect railroad PWs, I did have one or two that kept to Railroad Standard (+/-30"/WEEK!), but then they cost me a more than any 5 of my wristies, and that's what they were BUILT FOR!
Personally, My opinion is that 0-3 minutes over 24 hours is excellent for a watch over 50 years old and that's what I post in my listing as a standard for my description. Let's face it, most folks now where a watch for show. There's a clock in your car, on your PC, on your cell phone so knowing the time is not the issue really.When a watch as you have described runs that well......it's the customer that's broke $$, not the watch! Refund, relist and open a cancel transaction case to get your FVF refunded by the bay.
i think well all dealt with the buyers remorse...its a pain in the ass..if someone would check my feedback on ebay you would see that a customer tried to say i didn't say the dial was marked when i clearly stated in the ad that quote the dial has marks on it end quote.. the buyer tried to get his money back but i refused and he then didn't push it with ebay...like shawn said the buyer is broke...i would rather some not pay then to pay and then try to return it when there is nothing wrong...Ebay has the worse customer service and only is better than paypal nothing else...if anyone has a better way to get your items out there than ebay i am all ears...but for the time being we all have to deal with the devil...i know i said this before i am still waiting for a seller to refund me my 80 dollars two month later after the watch was delivered back to the seller...Ebay still hasn't done anything..and that person is still selling items...the timerestoration guy has a pure buyers remorse case there can be..."the case is factory because it looks too new, Isn't that a good thing when a watch looks too new.. And thanks Shawn for clearing up the plus or minus three mins.. now if all ebay buyers could see that...even if they know that,it doesn't stop them from complaining....
In reply to i think well all dealt with by Ellierose
I really don't want to slam Ebay but if you are a seller, be prepared to get zero support from them. I have always run my business on the notion " take care of the customer( right or wrong) and your business will take care of itself." I always take these things in stride, offer a repair/return option, or full refund if that's what they want. I've had many watches returned, fully functionable, as described but as the buyer will claim, not working. Refund, relist and file a cancel item case to re coup your FVF fees. Yes, it's a hassle, takes time, ties up your inventory but if you don't treat your customers as they feel they should be treated ( again, right or wrong.) you will not do well. It only takes 2-3 buyers to destroy a good reputation of any seller. If kissing A is what it takes to please someone then suck it up and give it to them, put them on your blocked list and carry on. Hard lessons learned over the years but learned well and I still maintain a preferred seller status as well as a silver power seller status on ebay so that says I'm doing something right even if I have to eat a few bad deals. In the long run, you still win, you keep your reputation , your integrity, and your own self respect.
IMO...anything under a minute per day is good...and hey if you really want a watch that's accurate within a second a month go and buy a descent quartz watch.
Part of the charm of wearing a vintage watch is the character they can display at times. They sometimes have a life of their own which is what I like about them. Sure you can have a modern day quartz that will never fail you....well except when the battery goes....but give me a mechanical windup any day of the week...20 seconds slow or fast.
When I wear one that "keeps time", I'm content to wind and reset the time the following morning....If I wear it more than a day in a row. For me, a couple minutes a day is fine. I consider this "keeping time" and I don't necessarily qualify that with "...for something 80 plus years old..." This is why I ride an old Indian motorcycle rather than a new Kawasaki. the Indian needs constant work and upkeep, parts are hard to find, they break down alot compared to a Kawasaki...and they are much more tempremental......but I like how the Indain makes me feel when I ride it. Same w/ an old mechanical watch. The watch has charactor.
In reply to When I wear one that "keeps by William Smith
Samething here i used to have a vintage sports car..and it was the samething...i think the people who buy a vintage watch and expect a brand new watch are the trendy people who because of some article in GQ or Esquire they want to get on the wagon...Not doing any homework and wanting something that they don't have work on or do anything to..Thats probably why Hamilton reiusse watches sell so much...get the look without taking the time and care...also about the size or the watch people think bigger is always better,and its not..i think if i put in the measurements and someone is too lazy to look at a ruler then its not my fault...i once had a buyer return a watch not because it didn't keep time or didn't like the size but because he lost interest between the time he bought it and the time it came in the mail...which was a work week later...Ebay paid the refund and then i had to pay ebay...there wasn't any communication he just did it and the next thing i know is the watch is in my mail with a blank look on my face...that P!@!@ me off more than anything..LOST INTEREST?? then why did you buy it in the 1st place....