Hi again,
I having way to much fun here!
I have a old Bulova that looks just like the hamilton piping rock, It has a rodiam plated case, it is stamped in the back Bulova watch company , pant. Jan, 11, 1927. It has a black enamal bezal and hinged lugs with the same dial design like a piping rock. If it had Hamilton printed on the dial you would think it was a piping rock. I have bought every complete guide to watches since 1984 and I have never seen it and I cant find any referance to it. The watch comes with a 9at movement. I would like to restore the watch, but I want to know if it is even worth it.
If anyone knows this watch , name , model, anything, Please let me know.
Ok, I snapped a couple pics of the mysterious bulova. I know it dont look like much right now, But I know that when it is restored, it will look and run like new. I just simply dont know what it is. I have been to 50 nawcc shows, and read hundreds of books and never seen it before. Take a look. Mike........
In reply to Maybe this is the Bulova by Timemachines
Good, Idea, My watch is 37.5mm from lug to lug ends, and 26mm wide less the crown, as crowns might be differant.
I use to have a Hamilton Piping rock, but I liked the wopping $700.00 I got out of it, back in 1984, But I wonder if the guy would sell it back to me today for the same price ! LOL, I doubt it. :) I think they are bringing around 2300 now.
Your right about the date, I wasn't thinking right I guess.1928
I wonder if this thing would fetch that kind of money?
Mike........
In reply to Mike, my Piping Rock is a by Bob Bruno
Hi Bob,
Yes the lugs are hinged and they are real tight and they will lay out perfectly flat. I'm not sure when the first Hamilton came out, but the Bulova is much older.
See I was right, Hamilton did steel it from Bulova! LOL
I'm joking of course, But I do like the watch. I have had it for the last 15 years or so and I thought I might just get to it and fix it up. I know that some people dont like the watches that are restored, maybe thats because some people dont know how to properly restore them. But I specialize in restoring vintage watches. I believe that other the a dial refinish, you would have a hard time telling that it was not stock. I like watches that look prestine and not all beat up, but this is just my opinion.
Mike....
I feel the same way Mike. I'm not a fan of patina on a watch dial. I don't mind a dial that shows a little age, it gives a watch some character. I think most "patina" is really just the glue seeping to the front of the dial. Oh and I think the PR was released in 1929. It was given to the 28 Yankees as a World Series gift, but You probably knew that.
Bob
In reply to I love it!!!!!! One mans by Wayne Hanley
In reply to Mike I was going to post a by Bob Bruno
Thanks ayway's,
Now maybe we can find out what this thing is, We know it was made in 1928, but what did Bulova call it? Did Bulova make them for the public, or is it just a fluke, that they may have made a few of ? I would think if they were mass produced, that Bulova would have had some old ads, write ups, or some sort of documantation , so if anyone see's this crider out there , Please let me know. Mike....
We know that the movement was made in 1928. I would think that whoever designed it or made it, did so at a later date than 1928. It looks like a simple square stock frame, with the movement & bezel fit for the frame.Any guess on the type of metal used on the frame? How is the watch attached to the frame? It very well could have been made by a handy watchmaker/machinist. Ya recon?
Wayne
Well, I'm quite sure that Bulova did indeed make this watch. The watch back looks to be steal, with a rodium plating, and the frame maybe nickel or other base metal also rodium plated. I'm sure that if a watchmaker made it he would have not taken the time to stamp bulove quality and serial #'s in the case.
The hinge's are so tight and professional made, that I woud think this took some presice equipment to achive.
It very well could be a proto type watch that Bulova produced to test the market and maybe at the time, it didn't go over well enough to mass produce.
Maybe it was like the Bulova / Omega tuning fork dispute, where Bulova sued Omega for making the tunning fork f300 series and Bulova won for pantent infringements.
Maybe Hamilton had something going with this design and Bulova felt they could not / did not want to compete so they just trashed the design. It sounds like they both may have came out at or around the same time.
I wonder if one could look up the pantents that bulova applied for back in 1927/ 28 and see if the designs are in the US pantent office?
It's a puzzeler!!!!!!!!!!!
My 2 cents.
Both the movement and back case may very well not be genuine to the case.
Is the back case attached to the main body?. If not who's to say that the front is a product of Bulova.
All it would take to make this watch is a spare movement (a case screw it missing), a Bulova stamped back plate for the late 20s and a rounded dial.
The back is a total different metal from the front case. I've never seen this on a Bulova case from the 20s/30s. They always match are are usually gold filled or rolled gold.
I've also never seen a Bulova ad showing this model and I have alot of ads from the 20s and early 30s.
As vintagebulova said I too have seen something similar go around on ebay a few times, but was never convinced it was the real deal.
Frankinbulova is my call....sorry timemachine!!
Happy to be proven wrong.
Good point of view, BUT, ( There's alway's a but) Your not talking with a novis here, I have been working on watches for more then 25 years on a daily basis, This is not my first rodio! I also make custom watches, for many people all over the world as a matter of fact. So now I will only say that it is my strong professional opinion that this watch is 100% manufactured from Bulova, and I would stake my reputation on it.
Since I work on only watches, I'm a pretty good judge for a real watch over a made up one. I'm sure that alot of watches out there that no one else has ever seen as well.
I'm not trying to knock the wind out of your sales here at all, I will just say we disagree on this one.
Mike.....
It's real simple, In the 20's and 30's all the watch manufactures were playing with all the new tech, of the day, They started to mixing metals, and plating in differant way;s ect. A gold filled case is a thin layer of gold stamped ofer a base metal, I have seen the base in copper , brass, nickel, and even white metal. All that had been plated or filled. It was the earlie 30's when they started to put solid steal backs on watches as they would not be so corrisive on the arm.
I cant tell you how many cases that I have rebuilt the ends of the lugs that were worn off, by either the steal bands cutting into them or the spring bars wearing them out. I away's have to figure out the base metal before i can weld them up and redrill them.
So in the end, watch case manufactures did use many differant metals for the cases.
Just because you haven't seen it, dosent meen it dosent exsist. (I'm looking at one) Again, just my opinion. Mike.....
In reply to I like you guy's, I hope you by Timemachines
Thanks Mike,
I am not a watchmaker, just a collector, and a amateur at that (only 20 years), but looking at the pictures you provided, I have to ask a couple of questions.
1. Does the Crystal protect the Chapter Ring or does it fit inside?, seems that it looks good compared to the case.
2.You should be able to see some sort of Soldering that mates the 2 totally different housings togather.
3. Is the movement held in place like a Pocket watch, and also removed the same way?
not judging, just asking for knowledge...
Greg
Until there is some hard evidence that Bulova manufactuered this watch as a whole, then I'm at odds as to count this is a true Bulova model. Like I said I'm always more than happy to be proven wrong and eat my words. Evidence is what is making this site far better than it ever has been and If I get egg on my face through someone finding the evidence, hey I'm a happy camper with egg on my face :-)
If the backcase was hinged to the front then you'd have me drooling over this watch, but as I see it, anyone could have placed a Bulova movement inside with a back case.
This is all part of the fun (I hope) in putting all the pieces together to finaly put an end to all those wonderful mysterious Bulova's.
Whilst you may think I can't truely say it isn't a Bulova, I say that you can't truely say it is.
Just think though, if its proven to be authentic, how much it will be worth!!
PS... I utterly respect all the knowledge and history here on the myBulova.com site, but now for the first time (in a long time) we are finally in a real position to 'positively' identify a Bulova watch. This has never been possible before on this scale.
Ok, Facts we know:
1. The watch case is made from a rodium plated base metal
2. The watch case is a stamp process not cast, ( I see shear marks between lug's)
3. The back is marked with pant. date and serial # and it a perfect fit snap back
4. the bezal is a snap fit , like the back , Black Enameled that has a crystal groove for the crystal to be inserted (like the piping rock)
5. The movement is a perfect fit and loads from the top after the bezal is removed with two case screws in the mack to mount it with.
6. The lugs are hinged like the PR
7. No solder marks on case as you would expect.
8. Movement dates to 1928 , 9at ser# 313261 Cresant moon
9. pant. date jan, 11. 1927
10. ser# C229703 ( the C could be a 6)
11. dial look original, marked swiss at the bottom of dial (stamped into the metal dial)
12. From a guy who has a 12 power loop in the backside of more then 100 watches every month for the last 25 years (thats alot of watches) say's it is original and not made up by any individual watchmaker.
I know that it is a rare watch. I have tried to look into pantents for Joeshp Bulova for 1927, but tracking the pantents without a spacific pantent # is tough! I really dont care myself if it was custom made by a individual as that would be really cool as well, but there is nothing to tell me this happened, no signatures other then Bulova. I make custom watches all the time, and I'm proud to show my work and I do sign peices as any artist would.
I think that Some people think that because they havent seen it before, it never exsisted, but I can tell you for a fact, I have gone to many NAWCC shows I have come accross the most strange stuff there that I have never seen.
The art of watchmaking is a wonderful thing, and it is my beliefe that this watch just never made it to mass production, and that happens alot. How mny times have we watch tv or read a book of really cool cars that GM made that never made it to production? Well, I think this is one of those cridders.
Your turn! Mike..
Whether this watch is a prototype, custom, or a rarely seen production model it's one cool Bulova that I'm certain any one of us would love to own.
Jay
vintagebulova.com
PS - You've got a lot of us looking through every scrap of watch info we can get our hands on to find out what it is.
Well, I just sent a e-mail to Bulova and I'll see if they give me any idea's, hint's or some solid fact's.
I peosonally dont think that anyone would make this up. Stephan say's he needs hard proof this was made by Bulova, but to me it's a smoking gun! It has only Bulova writtin all over it, and it seems like he would need alot of proof that it wasn't made by anyone except Bulova!
Take the case for instance, The case was stamped out, not a cast. This would take a huge die, that would cost tens of thousands of dollars back in 1928 to produce. A indiviual would simply make a wax mold and cast it.
No one would ever spend that kind of money on fitting dies, enamel process, ect, without having a plan to mass produce it.
I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS? But I'm sure it's a Bulova!
Mike.....
In reply to Well, I just sent a e-mail to by Timemachines
Unfortunately contacting Bulova will not be your answer... please read the post I submitted last week:
In reply to I found a Westfield (made by by Timemachines
Hay Wayne,
I did go look at the book and your right on 653, the Waltham looks real close to this watch. I also had no idea that Waltham made one like it.
I'm sure that some watch case makers like star ect. probably made up proto type watches that they could show to the big watch manufactures, But I would think if this were the case, that the case would just be marked with the case manufactures name, not the watch manufactures name.
It's certainly fun to find out, I hope we as a team can find the answer. Mike....
The evidence says that this is a Bulova watch. The site displays quite a few Bulova Unknowns without any source data to back them up & we hope that someone will identify them someday. I think if we accept it as a Bulova (which I do) it will be a publicity draw for myBulova.com. Let the world attempt to shoot down it's authenticity or confirm it. The evidence is going to come from outside the site, we have been discussing it for two days and everything I see about the watch screams authentic. This thread proves our interest in it. Rather than condem it because we never saw one before, make it known that one of our members has of a One of a Kind Bulova from ca. 1928.
Wayne
